Tackling TriDot Workouts: Runs off the Bike

TriDot Podcast Episode 346
Tackling TriDot Workouts Runs off the Bike

Andrew Harley: Welcome to the TriDot Podcast. Really great episode today, where we're going to talk about running off the bike. This is my favorite thing to do in all of triathlon. I love a good run off the bike session, for a lot of reasons I'll share as we get deeper into the show. But I have one TriDot coach here, with me today, and he and I are going to go back and forth, just talking about some strategy and some coaching tips for how to succeed in a run off the bike session, as well as we're actually going to put on the screen the workout patterns for the runs off the bike that an athlete will see in the TriDot workout catalog. And Coach Matt Sommer is going to talk us through how to perform each of these sessions that an athlete will actually see in TriDot. Coach Matt is a multiple Boston Marathon finisher, multiple IRONMAN finisher. He's the fitness director of Alamance Country Club in North Carolina. Strength and conditioning coach by trade, and a triathlon coach/running coach by passion. I always love having him on the show. Coach Matt, how are you today?

Matt Sommer: Andrew, I'm doing fantastic. It's been way too long since I've been on here with you. I think it's just you and me today. We're going to have our work cut out for us, who's going to talk more. But always love being on here, sharing some knowledge, sharing some passion, and just helping the TriDot family become the best version of themselves. So thanks for having me on.

Andrew Harley: We can talk plenty, the two of us, that's for sure. We can talk plenty. I am Andrew, the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always, we'll get cranking with our warm-up questions, settle into our main set conversation about running off the bike, and then we'll wind things down by asking Coach Matt a question from our audience on the cool down. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it.

Announcer: This is the TriDot Podcast, the triathlon show that brings you world-class coaching with every conversation. Let's get started with today's warm-up.

Andrew Harley: For our warm-up question today, Coach Matt, you've done a lot of races, I've done some races, the people in our audience have certainly done a tremendous amount of races, and I'm curious to hear from all of our athletes, yourself included, from every medal you've received from crossing a finish line, what medal in your collection is your absolute favorite? What is this for you, Coach Matt?

Matt Sommer: That is such a philosophical question. There's not an easy answer, but I do have one. Every medal, for me, honest to God, goes back. There's a story behind everyone. It's the work that went into it, the early mornings, the hard work, the determination, the whole path. And that's why medals hit differently. They're not just souvenirs. They're symbols of discipline, they're symbols of commitment, dedication. But the no brainer for me, sorry, I'm a sucker for this one, just got done it -- the Boston Marathon medal. I mean, a lot of races, you can go out there -- I brought them with me. I've got all 11. All 11, consecutive.

Andrew Harley: All 11 of them.

Matt Sommer: Yeah. Sounds like wind chimes, my favorite sound to hear. I got them hanging in my closet. But for me, that metal just hits differently. I mean, anybody can sign up for a race. Boston has to be earned. That race, to me, is about years of consistency, years of discipline, years of commitment. Because year after year, you have to earn the opportunity to get back there. And that's why that one hits a little differently for me. I always leave that race happy, hungry, but full of gratitude. And that's why that medal is so special to me. I'll tell you something honest, and this is true. It's in my will -- and people are going to think I'm crazy for this -- that my 2016, my first Boston Marathon, goes in the grave with me. After that, every single Boston Marathon medal and celebration jacket, by birth order, my children get to pick one of corresponding year, and then goes down the line to my grandchildren. Hopefully, something that they can be proud of me as their father, and me as their grandfather, of, but that is something in my legacy I want to pass on to my children and grandchildren. So they all have a medal and a jacket that was mine. So pretty neat little thing about medals, there.

Andrew Harley: One of the coolest things I've heard on this show in 347 episodes -- I think this one is? Really cool, Matt. I like that. I'm glad I asked you this question. Your answer is a lot more meaningful than mine. And you went a casual, what, 3:04, 3:05 in Boston?

Matt Sommer: 3:06. 3:06. And that was only 13 seconds slower than my first Boston, 10 years ago. So Father Time, I'm coming for you, man.

Andrew Harley: I love it. I love it. This answer, for me, I don't have 11 of them, but I do have 2. As a triathlete, if you don't have a Boston medal or a Kona medal, you got to go for your first IRONMAN medal. So here's my IRONMAN Waco medal. My one and only full distance IRONMAN. If you know the city of Waco well at all, this is the suspension bridge that goes over the river where the finish line was. And my wife went to Baylor. So while she was at Baylor, we were dating, and we spent a lot of time and had a lot of dates in downtown Baylor – or, in downtown Waco. So that's a city that is near and dear to our hearts, just south of the metroplex where we live. So that's the top one I got to pick, just because if you've only done one IRONMAN, and you spent all the time and effort to do an IRONMAN, it's kind of an obvious. I do want to give a special mention, Matt, to this medal that I received. This is from the 2023 Thank Goodness I'm Not Racing party in Kona.

Matt Sommer: I love it.

Andrew Harley: Look at this thing. So Bob Babbitt -- shout out to Bob Babbitt and the Challenge Athletes Foundation. Every year in Kona, Hawaii -- and Nice, when the World Championships was the Nice, when the World Championships was in St. George. When it's a World Championship, Bob puts on a fundraiser called the Thank God I'm Not Racing party. It's the night before the race, and everybody who's not racing gets invited. And you have to make a donation to the Challenge Athletes Foundation to get invited. But there was this one year I went, 2023, where they were giving these medals away on the way in. And it's got TGINR, Thank Goodness I'm Not Racing, 2023. It's got a rainbow, it's got fire. It looks like Hawaii. This little guy, Matt, he spins.

Matt Sommer: That’s awesome. Oh, wow. Look at that.

Andrew Harley: This little guy spins. Like, this thing, no joke, oh, it lights up. If the battery still works, it lights up. Here it goes.

Matt Sommer: Got to love it. That's beautiful. That's a wonderful thing.

Andrew Harley: Yep. It's literally, Matt, my nicest medal in the entire collection. It's nicer than all the IRONMAN ones. It's nicer than Escape From Alcatraz. It's nicer than any race I've finished. Bob does it right in the Challenge Athlete Foundation.

Matt Sommer: There's nothing like a good medal. The funny thing is, the world of ultra-running, the belt buckles. I have one belt buckle from Badwater Cape Fear, that's just the skull and crossbones. I'm not badass enough to wear that thing, but it's massive. And one day, I just want to put that thing on and walk around, because they just draw attention. But the world of ultra-running, I love the belt buckle thing. That's pretty cool instead of a medal.

Andrew Harley: Great answers, here. I'm excited to hear what our audience has to say. So if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, comment right below in the comment section on those apps. If you're not watching there, if you're listening to us in your car or somewhere, make sure you go either in the app to the TriDot Podcast community, or find us on the socials and let us know, from all the races you've done, what medal is your absolute favorite in your collection? Can't wait to hear what you have to say.

Announcer: Let's go.

Andrew Harley: On to our main set, where we are talking about runs off the bike. I said it at the top of the show. I've said it probably 6,000 times across all of our episodes. I love running off the bike. I just love it. I don't know. Matt, I just feel free. I feel like I've been locked into these pedals for an hour or so, and when I get out of those pedals, and I get my running shoes on, and I get out the door, I feel free. And I love the feeling of getting my running legs underneath me. But it's weird. It's a weird thing. It takes some time to get better at. And so here we are, ready to learn from you about how to get better at this. And I'm curious, Matt, do you think, as a coach, as you're working with your athletes, is running off the bike a skill that can be developed, or does it always feel strange, from the first time you do it to the 1,000th time you attempt to run off the bike?

Matt Sommer: I agree with you, 100%. It does feel strange, but yes, it's absolutely a skill that can – bleh. It's absolutely a skill that can be developed, honed, and trained. A lot of what you're feeling the first few times when you run off the bike, it's awkward, because your body is transitioning from a seated movement -- circular, your legs are going up and down -- and into an upright, impact-based movement. I mean, it just feels awkward neuro-muscularly. I mean, that is why it feels so weird. Half the time, when I get off the bike, I'm so ready to get off the bike. I'm like, “I can't wait to run. I can't wait to run. I can't wait to run,” because I'm tired of sitting. So for me, I, mentally, am always coming off, and I'm like, “Wow, I’m ready to do this.” For a lot of athletes, it is an awkward transition. And it takes a little bit time to get used to it. That's why we have these workouts, to work on that neuromuscular efficiency. So key points: yes, running off the bike is trainable. Neuromuscular adaptation is the primary goal of why we're doing this. It's getting you ready. We do run standalone sessions. We all know how to run, but running off the bike is a different skill set. And that's one of the things we'll talk about. It's like, when I work with athletes, they're like, “But coach, I run this in my standalone sessions, but I bike this in my standalone sessions.” People have heard me say this, the athletes I work with, it's putting together your best hand. You might be able to run X, you might be able to bike Y, but when you put them together, it's putting together your best possible hand of the two. And that's the key there. Mentally, you're going to get more comfortable doing it. Now, for some people, that strange feeling never disappears, of transitioning from one to the other, but the goal is to hopefully dissipate how long it takes for that strange sensation to kind of go away -- to make you more comfortable more rapidly.

Andrew Harley: Very, very interesting. I didn't practice this, Matt, before my first triathlon. I didn't know it was a thing to practice this. I've said it on the podcast before, I bought my first road bike the night before my first sprint triathlon.

Matt Sommer: That's a great best practice, right?

Andrew Harley: Right? It really worked out well. I had a horrific bike split. But I rode it 2 miles around the block, just to see what it felt like to ride it. But anyway, so I’ll never forget that feeling of getting off the bike, for my 53-minute bike split, average 13 miles an hour. I get off the bike, my legs are already crampy. I'm already tired. I'm already like, “What has happened to me?” And I had to run a 5K. And just that first 100, 200, 300 meters is just so odd. And I did get used to it over time. And again, now, it's my favorite feeling in the world. I just love getting off the bike, getting on my running legs, getting my run legs going. But anyway, I'm curious, Matt, to ask you my second question, that I'm pulling up right now. For an athlete that's using TriDot for their training, how often should they expect to see a run off their bike in their training plan?

Matt Sommer: That's a great question. The first part, and I heard you correctly, is how often on the TriDot training. So on TriDot, you are going to see those typically weekly. Now, that goes back to a bigger, more global answer: it depends. As a coach, I am working with you. It depends how frequently we're going to do it. It depends on your experience level, the race distance that you're doing. But generally speaking, brick workouts -- we call a brick, that is when you transition, and you have a bike immediately followed by a run. So if you're new to the sport, maybe don't understand the lingo, that is what a brick is. If you hear that word, it's going straight from a bike workout to a run workout. Brick workouts probably should be a consistent part of your training year-round. They really should be. And that's why you are going to see it frequently in different varieties. That's the key there, is how they are incorporated into your training. Beginner triathletes, you might get this once every 1 to 2 weeks, depending on how, where your skill sets are. But for the most part, on the TriDot platform, you will see it weekly.

Andrew Harley: Yep. Very, very good. And I know folks that expected more when they get on. Like, “Hey, wait a second, shouldn't I be practicing this more?”

Matt Sommer: When I'm coaching an athlete one on one, if they're expressing concern or interest about that, first off, I want to understand what their concern is. If it's a matter of making sure they're ready for race day, I assure them, listen, the run volume's there, the bike volume’s there. It's not necessarily more volume is better. It's getting that neuromuscular efficiency. So occasionally, what I could have them do -- and again, this is one-off situations -- is if they're concerned about the run off the bike, in particular, “Oh man, I haven't had enough time on my legs after biking.” I’m like, okay. I might throw in -- again, we're going down a different hole, here -- I might have them do a 15- or 20-minute Zone 2 bike before their run session, just to get the legs warmed up. You're still going to get the same type of efficiency. So a very fair thing that I've done with a lot of them is, not a quality bike, just spin the legs for 10 to 20 minutes. If that's what you want, I'll meet you. I'll give you 10 minutes on the bike before your run. That's fine. You're going to get the same thing. So now you have a long run after your, quote/unquote, “bike”. But it's only 10 to 20 minutes of Zone 2. I can meet them where they are.

Andrew Harley: Just enough to give you that feeling of doing that transition. Yeah, I like that. I totally get that.

Matt Sommer: And then mentally, they're getting what they want, but I'm not being reckless in my approach of doing high volume, high quality followed by a high volume run. I'm still staying within what I would consider appropriate parameters to reduce likelihood of injury, improve neuromuscular efficiency, and more importantly, what am I doing? Mentally preparing them. Giving them what they want but in the way I want it, if you get my drift.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, well, TriDot is all about keeping the right amount of training stress on your body. And so if you were just to go out and do that run session, you would have a run warm-up prescribed to you, you would have some run drills prescribed to you, and then you do your run. And so I imagine, Matt, you're not having the athlete do the run warm-up anymore, or the run drills anymore, because--

Matt Sommer: Not at all.

Andrew Harley: So it's really just taking the place of the training stress you would be incur--

Matt Sommer: It’s substituting. And I've even gone as far as -- what I will do, depending on who the athlete is, I'll reduce their overall run duration to accommodate for the extra bike that we put in there. But it's all Zone 2. So Zone 2 there or Zone 2 there, it all is going to add up to the same thing.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. And Matt, I'm sure you'll agree with me, once you get into your triathlon journey and this becomes something that you do regularly, I never feel like I need more than the once a week that TriDot gives me.

Matt Sommer: Not at all. Not at all. And one thing I know we're going to -- well, we'll talk about these workouts. We'll get there. I've got a—

Andrew Harley: Almost there. Almost there.

Matt Sommer: Oh yeah. I'm just excited, Andrew. I'm excited.

Andrew Harley: Okay, so last question, Matt, before we get there, because we are. I've got four different TriDot workouts that are a different form of running off the bike, that athletes will see on their calendar. Last question I want to ask before we just start going through them, workout by workout, and hearing from you. When one of your athletes has a run off the bike coming up, regardless of which session it is, what do you, as a coach, tell them to focus on as they are getting off the bike and starting their run?

Matt Sommer: Well, that's another great answer. The goal depends on the workout. Are we looking for adaptation, pacing, or is this a race rehearsal? So it really depends. But generally speaking, embrace it. Don't fight the awkwardness. It's going to feel a little awkward. And don't -- there's going to be a little bit of a struggle on the front end, okay? I tell them to stay relaxed, let their stride come naturally, and it'll open up over the first few minutes. That is the goal of the first initial, the first few minutes of it. Focus on a quick cadence, relax your upper body, control your breathing, and just be patient. You got to be patient. Don't force it. Eventually, the goal is that it just becomes more of a natural feeling, and you can get into your pace or stay within the recommended heart rate zones pretty quickly. So depending on where the athlete is, where their overall fitness is, it could take a little bit of time. Now, the other thing I always point out to them -- transitions. Treat it like a real transition.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, good point.

Matt Sommer: So many people rush it. They get off, and they act like they don't have to transition. I mean, if we're honest with ourselves, most transitions are maybe 2 minutes to 6 minutes, depending on the race, how big transition zone is. You don't have to pop right off, throw your running shoes on, and go straight out the front door. I mean, that's a 20-second transition. Wow, you're world class. Take the opportunity. Remember the purpose, the training integrity. If you got to use the bathroom getting off the bike, use it. Take your time to make sure you're warm. Make sure, if you got to change clothes, make a clothing change. Hydrate quickly. Don't take 10 minutes though, in between the two, because then we're losing some of the warmth and the integrity of the session. But take an opportunity to let the heart rate come down for a minute or two, ease into it, get your running shoes on, and then get going. So there is that important piece of it, as well.

Andrew Harley: I love that addition there, Matt. And if it's, I mean, for me, at minimum, I'll put on a fresh shirt.

Matt Sommer: Absolutely.

Andrew Harley: And just let the tri shorts do their job, stay in those. Fresh shirt, put the running shoes on -- like you said, not in a hurry -- sip a beverage, and then head out the door. If it's a race rehearsal, I'll stay in my race kit, obviously, but outside of that, yeah. Definitely not rushing it, but not dawdling at the same time. Very good point, there.

Matt Sommer: So I think the key points, because you asked, it depends, what are we doing this transition run for? I think the key points to take home from this are relax into it. Focus on cadence rather than stride length. I think that's going to be a much more important thing. Don't sprint out of it. Okay. Don't run and make it sound like you're doing a 100-yard dash when you start. Settle into your pace naturally. And always remember, good form is going to matter more than speed early. The speed will come, especially as we get into these longer distance races. Okay. Because pacing becomes more of a animal there.

Andrew Harley: Yep. Very, very good. Well, I'm going to click a couple buttons, Matt, and on the screen, for anybody watching us on YouTube, or watching us on Spotify video, you're going to actually see what some of these workouts look like in TriDot. I'm going to share my screen. Matt, you and I are little. These workouts are about to be big. So the first one we're going to talk about, there's four of them in total. This is the Bike-Run Bricks. Now, because of the way this workout is -- and again, I do want to throw out the disclaimer for any athlete listening, the exact intervals you're seeing in these instructions might not be the same exact intervals that you see. TriDot is going to give each athlete exactly what their body needs for any given workout. And so in this one, there's no pretty picture, because this one is a little crazy. Getting off the bike, getting on the bike, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. But if we're reading this workout correctly, a version of this, you've got your 10-minute warmup, where you're spinning at Zone 2. You got some bike warmups in there. And then once you're in the main set, this is a bike workout in the bike catalog, you're going to do 3 x 8 minutes biking with 5 minutes running off the bike in between. So you're going to bike for 8 minutes, you're going to run for 5 minutes, repeat, repeat, repeat, 3 times. And there's some extra instructions there. I don't get this, Matt, in my program. Because to your point, I think TriDot's giving these kind of workouts to newer triathletes, maybe to sprint focused triathletes. What do we need to know, Coach Matt, about executing this workout well?

Matt Sommer: So this is what your classic brick session, where you alternate between cycling and running. Now, a lot of people don't realize this. Depending on the race distances that you're training for, you'll see this or you won't see it. If you're doing typically sprint or olympic distance races, this will be a common one because you don't get race rehearsals in sprint and olympic distance races. You will see this workout a little bit more frequently and closer to race day. And this, I won't say is your race rehearsal, but it's going to be a little bit more indicative of finding that race pace, working on those transitions. So if sprint and olympics are your primary race focus, and they're in as an A-race, you're going to see this card. You're going to see it frequently. If 70.3s and IRONMANs, or 140.6s, are your focus, you will not get this that often, if at all, and you will have race rehearsals instead. So that's kind of why some people do and don't see this. Depends on the distance. What I love about this workout is it is that back and forth, helping you really find -- the key word in this main set. Andrew, what's it say for the run? Your race pace. Okay? This one, and that's why I go back to kind of race rehearsal mentality for the sprint and olympic. This workout is about finding race power, the 8-minute effort, and then finding race pace at a 5-minute effort, and then you follow it up with a 3-minute easy spin. A lot of the biggest concerns I get when this workout comes up is, “How do I track this workout? How do I get TriDot to get the data?”

Andrew Harley: Yeah, good question.

Matt Sommer: Well, this one takes a little bit of planning, but what I like to do on this workout is I build it in my on my smartwatch -- typically I'm on a Garmin ecosystem. I will actually record it almost like a triathlon. I will build it to where the transitions go, and you can set it up to be multi-sport, where I will go bike, run, bike, run, and you can actually record it several times. It's not a friendly one, I'll be honest. So don't overreact and get bent out of shape if it doesn't digest correctly and TriDot doesn't absorb it. I always tell my athletes, “You know you did the work. You know you did the work correctly. Don't lose sleep if for some reason it doesn't absorb into the system correctly.” But I think this is a great workout where you are transitioning back and forth. Another one on this workout -- the run paces, the running is not taken into TriDot. Only the bike portions of this workout are being graded. Okay. And again, for a TrainX score. It's not a bike and a run separate separately, as far as two data files. It's only looking at the bike work. So you could also just save the bike as one separate, save the run as a separate. But what I like about this workout is it really lets you dial in what my race pace should be on race day. I'm a big fan of progression. I always want my athletes to feel like they're getting faster. So what I have them do, since this is kind of a trial and error one for finding your race pace on race day, the first 8-minute threshold -- we have, generally, a good idea of what your race day power should be on the bike because of that tool, RaceX, that we have. And then also just from our training. Finding what card you can play on the run afterwards? That's trial and error now.

Andrew Harley: That's a good point.

Matt Sommer: So what I'll have them do, is since we have three rounds of this, I don't want them to do their hardest round first. I want them to build confidence. So if I think we're going to be running somewhere between, RaceX might show your race pace as a 6:30 per mile. Well, let's do the first round at 6:40. Let's see how that feels. Then let's do the second round at a 6:35, see how that feels. Then let's go to 6:30. We may find out very quickly that 6:40 is where I need to be. Or maybe we discover, through trial and error, that, hey, I can go 6:20. So you can build into each run a little bit differently, and it helps you, through trial and error, really dial in that running pace. And that's the focus of this one, for me.

Andrew Harley: Matt, I've never -- I've always viewed this workout as a workout given to short course athletes to help either develop the run off the bike skill, or to freshen up the run off the bike skill.

Matt Sommer: Which it does. Which it does.

Andrew Harley: Which it does. Which it does. I've never viewed this as a race rehearsal for short course athletes. And I love that lens, because as soon as you said that, I'm seeing in the text, “You should be going at race pace. Do not exceed race pace in either the bike or the run.” I'm seeing on the bike instructions, “Be in your race position and aim for a 90 RPM.” A race-friendly cadence. I'm seeing the instructions, as you're finishing each one, final one minute of the bike, “In your last 1 minute, start prepping for the run.”

Matt Sommer: Yep.

Andrew Harley: “Both in shifting your gears to easier and stretching out your back and calves. Prepping the body to run.” Like, I don't know how I missed, oh, this is trying to prime you for a race, for a short course athlete. Talk a little bit about what an athlete can do in that last minute on the bike, last minute on the run, just to simulate being on site at a race and making that transition.

Matt Sommer: It’s all about mental preparation for moving into the next discipline. That's what's great about this workout. This workout's all about pacing control, an opportunity to practice fueling, and improve that mental comfort as you move into those transitions. I love to challenge my athletes to start to use visualization as they're coming off the bike, as they're, to be honest, coming out of the water. What are you starting to think about with what you're going to do in transition? What's your order of operations? As you come into transition, you set your transition zone up. You know I have mine in quadrants, we've talked about this before. I'm very analytical. As I'm coming out, I'm thinking on the bike, I'm starting to unclip my shoes, if I'm comfortable with doing that. It's all comfort. And these are why we practice this. All three of those bike rounds, you can practice different transition tactics to see what your comfort is. There's another race day application. Do you wait and then unclip? Do you clip out and take your feet out of them? All different things. So really, what's your comfort level? I want them thinking about those mechanisms. What am I going to do when I get into transition? Am I going to drink my water? Am I sliding my shoes on? Do I have lock laces? Do I need to put socks on? Where's my fuel? Have I drank enough? Do I need to pull a gel and squeeze it in that last minute as I'm preparing to move to the run? Or do I have that in my back pocket, and I can do that when I start the run? So that's where it comes back to what's your fueling protocol? What is your, do you have a hat? Do you have a visor? Do you have sunglasses? Do you have a handheld? Start thinking what order of operations to be as quick but as purposeful and intentional in transition can I be. But don't forget to press stop on your Garmin -- most important, as you're coming out -- on your bike computer.

Andrew Harley: I'm so bad about that. I am truly awful at that. So onto the next one. I think we've covered this one really, really well and the purpose of it. Thanks, Coach Matt, for diving into these Bike-Running Bricks. Really fun session for those of you who do it and have the chance to do it. If you're a long course athlete, maybe beg your coach to just throw it on your program just once, just to experience it, because it is a fun workout. And Matt, on that note, why don't -- I know we have a race rehearsal built in, that's a longer race rehearsal, for half-Ironman and Ironman distance athletes. Why don't they need to do something like this where they're practicing that back and forth, back and forth, as often?

Matt Sommer: It goes back to the fact that -- I don't want to use the word “speed”. The reason I see this one being a little bit more purposeful is the intensity that's associated with sprints and olympics. You really need to come off from a high power to a high speed very quickly. Whereas 70.3s, we don't exactly call “fast”. I think fast is relative at that point, and you have a little bit longer time in each discipline to ease into what you're getting. When you're coming out of transition and you're going into a 5k, you don't have 10 minutes to settle into pace. You got to get to pace pretty quickly when all you're running is a 5K. When you're coming out of the water and all you're doing is a 20-kilometer bike ride, you don't have five minutes to ease into race pace. You got to get up to speed now. So there's that component where, and that's why that's such a beneficial workout for sprint and olympics, is because we are almost redlining. We're racing near threshold for 60 minutes to 2 hours. Whereas 70.3 and 140.6, we're at a high, not quite as high percentage of our threshold, so we have time to ease into it, build up to pace. Being a little bit more disciplined and restrained has its payoffs on the end.

Andrew Harley: Yep, great answer. Love that answer. Knocked that one out of the park. Okay, so moving on to our second run off the bike workout that athletes will see. And the next couple we're going to talk about are usually on your calendar after your long ride of the week. And so for me, that's on Saturday. It's very often Threshold and Hold. Sometimes it's Over-Under, sometimes it's Step-Ups. But it's usually, for I think a lot of athletes, a 1 hour and 25-minute bike, and then you're given a run off the bike immediately after. And there's a couple of variations here. And the variation we're going to start with is a variation with intensity. So we're seeing on the screen, and this is just the run workout. This is assuming you've already done your 1 hour 25 minute, or longer, bike ride, and in this case TriDot is going to give you an easy brick run. It's going to tell you to go Zone 2 out and Zone 3 back. This is 20 minutes, and so it's 10 minutes out at Zone 2, and 10 minutes at Zone 3 heading home. Coach Matt, talk to us about it.

Matt Sommer: Yeah, this is a great workout. And again, to your point, Andrew, you're going to see 2 iterations of this, where we do 10 minutes of Zone 2 followed by 10 minutes of Zone 3. And I always remind people, this is a pace-based workout. This is a great opportunity, and I tell my athletes, don't even look at heart rate. This is not a heart rate-driven workout. Do not let a heart rate get in your head and start to control what you do. This is truly pace-based. So pace is what we're looking at. This session starts out controlled and gradually introduces what we're going to call a moderate intensity. Why? Well, it allows the body to transition, and then the second half it teaches us how to really push stronger efforts under fatigue. This is all about pacing progression, as well. A lot of times I'll have my athletes, and when I bring them off as a coached athlete, I'm going to have them, I know what kind of their race pace should be for a 70.3, or for a 140.6. And typically, for a 70.3, it's going to be just a little bit middle of Zone 3 to the slower end of Zone 3. Whereas for an Ironman, if you're a really talented athlete, you're going to be running fast end of Zone 2, but typically, we end up maybe in the middle of Zone 2 on Ironman day. So for this workout, I'm going to have my athletes come off, for the first 10 minutes, probably about 10 seconds slower than the top end of Zone 2, and then I'm going to have them accelerate on the back end anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds faster than the slow end of Zone 2. That's how I like to build this workout and really try to encourage them to pick that pace up. First 10 minutes, great opportunity to practice hydration, fueling, electrolyte strategies. We're easing into it. What I love about that 10 minutes is, most of the time when athletes come off, they come off hot. They come running out of there because either they're like me -- I'm excited to be running, that's my jam -- or their cadence and their heart rate's already elevated, that they come off fast, and they look down and they're running a minute faster than goal pace. And I'm like, hold up, pump the brakes.

Andrew Harley: It's so easy to do. So easy to do.

Matt Sommer: Very. And next thing you know, you've ran and you lit matches you can't afford to. So I remind them, it's going to feel uncomfortably slow. There's a return on this investment. Use it as an opportunity to hydrate. Do a self-inventory. How is my body feeling? How is the pacing feeling? It should feel easy. It's the first mile. You either have 25 more to go or 12 more to go typically. If it doesn't feel easy, Houston, we have a problem. Okay. So it should feel easy, it should feel controlled. We can always get faster, because mentally, if you got to slow down, that's not a good feeling. Okay. So I love teaching the progression and being disciplined on getting faster as we go. But I think the key point is hydration, fueling, self-inventory, good mental check in that first 10 minutes, and easing into it. Also a great opportunity in transition. I tell people, make sure that you do some self-care. If you're having any type of chafing, rubbing, blisters, all you're going to do, think about, is what's bothering you. Take the 2 seconds to make comfort king. Apply a little extra shammy stuff. Change socks if necessary. I have athletes all the time, they see the pros, they go straight from bike to run and wear their tri kit. I'm sorry. If you're more comfortable in a running singlet and shorts, comfort will win. Comfort will win, always.

Andrew Harley: Especially in training.

Matt Sommer: Yes. Make sure you get comfortable because we train, we race like we train. Okay. So if you need to make those physical changes, go for it. Okay. There's nothing wrong with it, because we have to get out -- if all you're thinking about is how comfortable, uncomfortable you are, that's not a good 20 minutes. So.

Andrew Harley: Very good point. And it's always amazing to me, Matt, because you see this, you're like, “Oh, it's only a 20 minute run,” right? That's not very long, especially in TriDot, where I think most athletes, their typical runs are 40 minutes to an hour plus, depending on where they are in their training cycle. But so it's the shortest run of the week. And when you see that 10 minutes is Zone 2, 10 minutes is Zone 3. Okay, well Zone 3 isn't that scary. It's not that much more intense than Zone 2. It's not asking us to drop the hammer and hit Zone 4, Zone 5. But it can be amazing how, I don't want to say difficult, but how much you have to work to maintain Zone 3, the last 5 minutes of this workout. And if you do it like it says, where, I mean for me, I know exactly where, on the out and back from my house, 10 minutes out of Zone 2, 10 minutes home in Zone 3 is. So you're literally heading home, oftentimes. You're literally running home, and you got 5 more minutes, half mile to go, or whatever it is. And man, it can be tough to really hold the pace you're supposed to on the backside of this. There is--

Matt Sommer: I think-- I'm sorry, go ahead. I was going to say the key to this workout is patience early. I think that's the key. That's the big take home message, is, I tell my athletes, be patient early, stay smooth, build gradually, maintain your form as the effort rises. And at the end of it, one of my favorite sayings, “Run strong, not desperate.”

Andrew Harley: Love it.

Matt Sommer: Run strong, not desperate. Just keep that mentality. And I say smile. Smile every mile. There's a reason they rhyme. Okay. If you keep that smile on your face, it just illuminates your path. I've said that many, many times to my runners. Run from the heart.

Andrew Harley: So Coach Matt, there is -- and this is, for all intents and purposes, this is the same in the weekly rhythm of TriDot. You will get this, what's on the screen, as that 20-minute run right after a long bike session, just as that experience of getting on feet after you've cycled for a while. And same thing, just instead of putting the Zone 3 on the backside, it's putting the Zone 3 on the front side and letting you take a breather for the final 10 minutes of the workout. Is there anything, any coaching points that's different here, and just in your mental approach or pacing approach, or do you treat this kind of similarly to the other one, just inverse the order?

Matt Sommer: I think depending on who the athlete is, this is another one that I come into with experience. We all will see this. But again, coming off, depending on who the athlete is -- and I know this may sound biased. If they're one of what I call my ‘top guns’ and we're really trying to compete for a World Championship slot, or they're looking to PR -- maybe the run is their jam. They can run like the wind. This teaches you to come off at pace. That's more or less what this is. This teaches you to come off at pace. It teaches you to settle in. But at the same time, we all know, TriDot's great about this, training stress. 10 minutes and then bring it back, pull the reins back. It teaches you to come off at race pace, feel the form, feel the flow. Was my hydration adequate on the bike? Did I fuel adequately on the bike to come off and run at those paces? But after 10 minutes, that neuromuscular efficiency, we've demonstrated it. We don't have to go 45 minutes at that. We don't have to go an hour at that. 10 minutes is enough for you to feel it, feel the stride. Maybe try out the race shoes in that first 10 minutes, see where the body is. Was I chafing? Where's my breathing? Was I comfortable? But then shut it down, dial it back to a Zone 2 pace, cruise on home. Okay. We don't want to accumulate more training stress. The body can only absorb and digest so much. So let's not put excess stress on there. That's what standalone running sessions are for.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. And this, like you just said, is also pace-based, not heart rate. Heart rate is irrelevant here. You're trying to hold a certain pace for a certain amount of time. And I love -- you just said something there so quick, but it's so key. None of the run sessions we're talking about today are standalone run sessions. Your standalone run sessions -- and I'm going to go into coaching rant, here -- that's where you are gaining your run fitness. We're not looking to get you run fitness in these sessions. We're looking at getting you at a certain pace off of the bike, just for that experience. Correct?

Matt Sommer: Correct. Now, I'm going to get on the soapbox, here for a second, because I hear this all the time. It chaps me like crazy. And this is something I hear, I see, I hear people talk about our Tuesday bikes. Every Tuesday, if you're on TriDot and you're on a normal training and you don't adjust anything, 95% of us have a Tuesday quality bike session, and then there's an easy run. Guys, that's not a brick session. That is not a brick session. Those are two sessions.

Andrew Harley: It will tell you. It will tell you.

Matt Sommer: Yes. Those are two standalone training sessions. I have athletes that start with me or come to me and I see and they talk about, I did it all. No, it's not a 45-minute easy run off the bike. It is not. It is meant to be two standalone training sessions. And then they wonder why their Wednesday quality run sessions, they're not hitting their numbers.

Andrew Harley: Great point.

Matt Sommer: You overdid it on Tuesday. What I tell people is if life is throwing you a curveball, and those have to be done within close proximity of one another, you better fuel, you better hydrate, and you better make sure that you stick to the integrity and do not -- I call it Zone 2 heart rate cap. Okay. -- I said do not go through your red light. I use a green light, yellow light, red light mentality on easy runs and easy bikes. Your red light is your Zone 2 heart rate cap. Your yellow light is 5 beats less than your red light. Because what's going to happen when you hit the yellow light? The red light's coming, guys. All right. So that's your start to pump the brakes. Your green light is anything less than 6 beats less. So you're good, you're comfortable. Just keep on cruising. Okay. Matter of fact, it's like I tell people, I'm like, I would love at least 4 hours between those training sessions. It forces you to rehydrate, it forces you to fuel. It lets you put your focus on the bike workout that day, which is your primary focus. And again, that run workout, it's an easy workout. Heart rate, it's all that matters. Don't worry about your paces. And in all honesty, I'll be honest, Jeff Booher, our CEO, owner, put a great social media quote out earlier this week. I loved it. It was probably my favorite one. “Most athletes don't get injured on their hard runs. They get injured doing their easy runs wrong.” And I'm like, God, those words were never spoken any stronger. We run the easy stuff too hard. Keep it easy. There's so much physiological adaptations that occur when we stay in easy Zone 2. We don't overstress the body. We're not setting ourself up for failure the next day. I'll be honest, again, I run my Zone 2 heart rates at about 115 beats per minute. Snails pace for me. Okay. I'm at the slowest end of my Zone 2 in pace. And I mean, I get done, and you'd be like, “Did you even work out?” They work because they let me go hard then, when it's time to go hard.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. 100%, yeah. A great disclaimer about that, for me as well. It's on Tuesday. For athletes listening, it might be on different days, but you should have a day in your calendar where you have an easy run that is different than a quality bike session.

Matt Sommer: Not a brick.

Andrew Harley: I'm a middle-of-the-day workout guy in this season of my life. While my kiddo's at school, it serves as my lunch break. I'll go do a workout, eat a quick lunch, and then return back to working. And so that is the one day of the week, Matt, where I make myself get up and do the workout. Because I'm trying to put separation there. So okay, let's get this 20-minute easy run in in the morning, and then I'll do the bike later, with the just total separation of those two. So if you have to put them together, just because that's the only time you can get it in, so be it. But great point there from Coach Matt.

Matt Sommer: And if you do have to put them together -- I've had this conversation, it's a one-off time with athletes, I now change the focus of it for them to fueling and hydration. I make them and I remind them, I’m like, “Okay, if you don't fuel adequately on that bike coming off,” and I do give them usually a lower heart rate target to make sure that they're staying -- because I'm checking, big brother's watching. If you're not a coached athlete, respect your body. Give yourself a lower heart rate than the top end of Zone 2 as your red light. Do yourself that favor, because it just decreases the overall intensity. You're still getting it, but perfect world, you're going to do it as two separate sessions.

Andrew Harley: And too, I've learned, Matt, as a runner and a triathlete, when I'm running around the neighborhood and you see other people out running or cycling, I never judge what somebody's pace is. Because if I fly by somebody on the sidewalk, I might be doing 3 miles and they might be doing 23 miles, right? You don't know somebody's story. You don't know what they're up to. I might go by Matt, and I'm doing an interval workout and Matt's on a Zone 2 day. And so this might be the slowest this guy ever goes, and he's a Boston Marathon qualifier and I'm not. So you never know somebody's story. The only time, Matt, the only time I do feel superior to the runners around me in the neighborhood is when I'm doing a run off the bike.

Matt Sommer: I love it.

Andrew Harley: And again, they could be training for Boston. They could be a world-class athlete. But it just, in your head, as a triathlete, you go by somebody, and you're like, “They don't know that I just got off the bike. They don't know how awesome I am. I'm so awesome, I biked before I came out here to do this run. And they're just, probably just a runner.” That's the only time I feel superior to the runners in the neighborhood, because secretly, deep down, I'm a triathlete. And I don't know, they might be too, for all I know. Anyway, you get the point. Moving on, Matt, to the third type of run off the bike an athlete will see. And it doesn't look that different on the surface, and it's not prescribed much different than the two we just looked at, but this is that 20-minute run off the bike after a long bike session, where you're just given 20 minutes at Zone 2. No intervals, no picking up the pace, no giddy up. Just cruise in Zone 2, get it done, 20 minutes. Really relaxing run, to be honest, usually. Coach Matt, how is this any different than the ones, the versions we just looked at that have Zone 3 in them?

Matt Sommer: This one's all about controlled aerobic transition. That's what this is all about. It's about coming off, form, cadence, relaxation, just making sure that you're running comfortably. This one's hard for people, because a lot of people struggle, their heart rate gets out of Zone 2, and they're like, “But I have to walk.” That's a conundrum. It really is for a lot of people. If our Zone 2 pacing and heart rate -- if your heart rate's elevated, think of it as a longer transition. One of the keys to this, when I tell people, is, okay, this is just a much longer transition, then. Maybe transition to allow your heart rate to come down this day needs to be 5 minutes, or maybe it's a 2-minute transition. Take the time to allow your heart rate to come down below your Zone 2 cap before you start running. Because at some point, you're going to be walking anyway, so why not walk 5 minutes before you start your transition run to get the heart rate down, bring it from a boil down to a simmer, before you turn the heat back up. So that's a great strategy for anybody that's kind of like, “Man, as soon as I start running, that heart rate shoots up.” Take a longer transition. Maybe it's a big transition zone. You need a little bit more time. Don't get cold, but give your body the opportunity naturally, just to let that heart rate settle down. Take it off the boil, turn it down to simmer. Walk, fuel, ease into the run. If you recognize that heart rate's getting a little high, be proactive. You see your yellow light, start to walk. Then get back to the run, get back to a walk, do what you need to do. But this one's all about just focusing on efficient pacing. I think that's the important thing there. Monitoring heart rate and just being disciplined. It's a great workout without accumulating a lot of excess fatigue. I think that's the big take home here. I'll be honest, I see this workout a lot on my schedule. I would say 90% of my runs, as we were talking about maybe in the development season, are going to be transition runs, because the bike are such high quality sessions that coming off the bike, they don't want us to necessarily being pace focused. A lot of them are just, hey, comfortable heart rate. Okay. Now, maybe an unpopular opinion. I have a lot of athletes. Nobody's ever going to look back. If you just really worked really, really hard in the development season and you skip an off the bike run, or maybe you skip a transition run. Don't let it become a habit, but we are never going to look back on your schedule and be like, “Hey, do you remember Andrew back on that May 8th when you skipped that one 20-minute transition run?”

Andrew Harley: “That was the missed opportunity.”

Matt Sommer: That was why you had such a bad 70.3. It was that one 20-minute run. Remember guys, consistency is key. Life happens. I'm going to ruin this for everybody, real quick here. This is a deep, dark, dirty secret. We're not pro triathletes. We're doing this for fun. Passion. It should be enjoyable. If your life is demanding and you're doing everything you can to get that 1:15 run in, and you got to let something drop because you got to be at your kid's soccer game, let the 20-minute off the bike go. You can get it back another day. Or guess what you could do? Move it to Thursday. It doesn't have to be--

Andrew Harley: Where you also have a bike session. Yeah, good point.

Matt Sommer: Exactly. You could move it to a different day if you need to. Just don't move it to Tuesday where you already got the 40-minute easy one. You don't want to double up there. Use some common sense. But there's nothing wrong with maybe moving it to Thursday. Remember, the goal is neuromuscular efficiency, becoming comfortable. All right. But worst case scenario, sometimes you got to let it go. It's okay.

Andrew Harley: All right, Coach Matt, we have one more run off the bike that an athlete will see in TriDot, in their rhythm, particularly, like we’ve said, for our 70.3 and 140.6 athletes. They will get full on race rehearsal runs. Now, this is going to be no secret, when you get this run -- I'm putting on the screen as I'm talking. I'm such a good multitasker. If you're watching us on YouTube or Spotify on video, you can see it's not complicated, it's pretty straightforward, but this is the intensity chart for a race rehearsal run. And the point of this run is to do it at race pace. And so this is going to be put on your schedule on race rehearsal day. You will have your race rehearsal bike, and then afterwards, your race rehearsal run. And so for me, Coach Matt, and I think for most athletes, whether it's a half-Ironman or an Ironman you're targeting, this has always been a 40-minute run for me. How about you?

Matt Sommer: Typically, this one's going to be 40 minutes. Now, depending on the athlete, experience, level, where their Run Dot is -- and believe it or not, that Run Dot really dictates this one. It could be a full 40-minute at race pace. It could be 25 at race pace, then bring it back down to Zone 2. So there are some different iterations. I don't want everybody to be like, “Well, why do I get this?” But most people will see a full 40 minutes at race pace. This is your most race-specific session that you can get as a triathlete. I mean, this is to simulate exactly how race pace feels after a properly executed bike effort. I'm going to stress that again -- after a properly executed. If you overcook the bike, this isn't going to feel good. If you undercook the bike, this may feel amazing. The analogy I like to use here is it's like playing poker. Okay. We have five cards to play in a triathlon. You've got the swim, T1, the bike, T2, and the run. Okay. You got to put together the best possible hand. I may be a fantastic runner. I can go out there and run a 1:30 standalone half marathon. Okay. That doesn't mean I can do it after coming off the bike. All right. If I go out there and I over-bike, I'm not running a 1:30. I've got to figure out how strong can I bike and still run comfortably. And that's what I meant earlier about playing your best hand. That's what these race rehearsals are for. It's learning: what is my best running pace after I did my best bike? We train individual sports: biking, swimming, running. But when we put them all together, that's called racing. So it's finding out what's the best card. Do you play two jacks? Do you play a 10 on each? And I like the poker mentality, because it's like, I might have to dial one back to excel at the other. There's a balance between the two, and that's what this session's all about. I actually use these sessions -- like the 10-minute out, 10-minute back, or the Zone 3 out, Zone 2 back -- I use every time I see that as an opportunity for my athletes to practice dialing in race pace. One week we might go at one pace, the next week we might speed it up a little. How did that feel? What were the limitations? What were the heart rates doing? So it helps us figure out where should we be on race rehearsal day. It better helps me dial in, specifically for them, within their skill sets. When this is executed properly, when the 40 minutes is up, you better not feel like you're done. I always tell my athletes--
Andrew Harley: Great point. Such a good point.

Matt Sommer: If the 40 minutes is up and you're like, “Thank God, I'm done,” you went too hard. You went too hard. You overcooked it. This is all about race pace, discipline, fueling execution, mental confidence, endurance, and fatigue resistance. When that 40 minutes is up, you know, “Did I fuel adequately on the bike to get me going at pace?” Because fueling would have to continue. That's what your standalone long runs are for: how to fuel for 13.1. This is about making sure, “Did I fuel adequately on the bike to get me started on the run?” It's like that snack in between before you go to your next meal. Did I do this correctly? How's my form? How's my cadence? I want that first 40 minutes -- it better feel comfortable. It better feel easy. You better feel like you could have kept going. Because if it's, “Put a fork in me, Coach, I'm done,” we went too hard. Okay. All you're doing is getting out there. It's nothing new on race day. It's a dress rehearsal. Okay. It teaches you whether your bike pacing strategy was right. That's what this is about, a checks and balance for. Did I pace correctly on the bike so that I can get into the run and play the skill sets that I've developed in my standalone run sessions? I always tell my athletes it's a dress rehearsal. It's also a great opportunity to make sure that our race kit is functional. Did I chafe? Am I chafing while running? Athletes tell me all the time, “Oh, Coach, I love my tri kit. It's amazing. It works on the bike.” Have you ran in it? “Well, no.” Go run in it. It's a triathlon. If you come off the bike and all of a sudden you're just getting chafed to beyond belief in the crotch area, it may not work on race day. For a lady, if you come off and all of a sudden that tri kit is not supportive in the areas where it needs to be, it may not be the best solution on race day. Do you have enough pockets to carry your race fuel? Do you have enough -- are you warm enough? Because all of those things. Apparel will derail your race experience if we don't practice, practice, practice. So it's a great opportunity to make sure that our race kit, our favorite kit, our favorite Lululemon sports bra, our favorite socks -- are they adequate for race day, at race effort, at race intensity? But it's a great session. You should leave this one feeling accomplished, not defeated.

Andrew Harley: Now, we have several episodes of the TriDot Podcast about race rehearsals. I think, Matt, you've even been on a few of those, if not at least one of them, talking about how to execute a race rehearsal properly. So I don't want to go down this tangent too long, but I do want to point out here, for the purposes of looking at this workout, this is coming after a bike session, where, because it's a bike race rehearsal, you are biking either the full distance -- 56 miles, 112 miles -- or almost the full distance. You are going to be on the bike for a long time, almost the full race distance, if not the full race distance. But this is only a fraction of the run race distance. So I know the answer here, but Coach Matt, please tell everybody, why are we only doing such a small portion of the run as our race rehearsal when we're doing almost the full bike in that rehearsal?

Matt Sommer: Great question. I get this all the time. Training stress. It's just training stress. The run brings so much more training stress to the body. It's a weight bearing activity, so the impact of that requires more recovery. What we're looking at, here, is this is really about the bike. It's demonstrating the ability to hold that sustained power for, whether it's 56 or 112 miles. Now, I also will tell my athletes, don't get caught up on distance. If you're training on a smart trainer, or you're training outside and you're in a very hilly area, duration also works. RaceX and through good coaching, we have an idea of the terrain you're going to and the duration it will take. It's holding power for a certain duration, not necessarily distance, depending if you're on a smart trainer. If I do Road to Sky on Zwift, I may only go 15 miles, but I can hold power for an hour and 15 minutes. If I go outside, I may go significantly farther holding that same power. So don't get caught up on distance, necessarily. It's duration for power. And that's why we come off on that run, then, for 40 minutes. It's enough to demonstrate, build confidence, make you comfortable, but not leave you injured and set you up for an injury coming off that. That's what our -- not to get injured, but our standalone run sessions are for developing that duration. Same with marathon training. You never run 26.2 miles in training for a marathon. A lot of times we go up, with TriDot, you go up to 2 hours and 45 minutes, whatever duration that, whatever mileage comes with that. If you're a faster runner, yes, sometimes you do get 20, 22 miles. For other people, it's only how much stress can we absorb, digest, and then translate into race day.

[Transition Sound Effect]

Andrew Harley: Onto the cool down of today's episode. Lots of good running off the bike talk in that main set. I, actually, Coach Matt, have a transition, brick workout question of sorts for a cool down. This one came in from Gerald, and Gerald wants to know -- he says, “I'm a triathlon novice, and I've been learning more and more about the sport. I know everyone does bike to run workouts--” Yes, we do. Talked about it a lot today. “--but I have never hear anyone that practices cycling after doing a swim workout. Why is this not a thing?” Coach Matt, have you heard of that? Is anybody doing this?

Matt Sommer: Yes. Absolutely. I'll tell you -- it was Gerald. Is that correct?

Andrew Harley: Correct.

Matt Sommer: Yeah, Gerald, it is a thing. It really is. It's just not that well talked about amongst athletes. Swimming before cycling is actually less mechanically disruptive than biking before running. I mean, when you go from the bike to the run, you're changing movement patterns dramatically and you're adding impact. That's the biggest thing. But swim to bike transitions are still practice. I mean, it's definitely something you would want to work on. You don't see it widely prescribed. It's nothing you're going to see out there, but it is a very common practice. Coming out of the water, getting out of your wetsuit, getting into your cycling gear, getting on the bike. Again, not quite as dramatic, but again, you do need to practice the art of wetsuit removal. Maybe you got to practice that elevated heart rate control. God bless the swimmers. I mean, you have amazing swimmers out there. I have a couple athletes of mine, Ness Bowden, Brett Collins, they're studs in the water. They come out of the water, they have not lit any matches. They come out of the water cool, calm, controlled as a cucumber. Heart rate's down, and they're out there, and I mean, there’re millions of bikes. I come out of the water, my heart rate’s spiked, half the bikes are gone, and I'm like, “Oh, this is—"

Andrew Harley: You and me both, brother.

Matt Sommer: And again, it's all about that. But when you come out cool and collected, that's a little bit easier. You come out like the average Joe, heart rate's up a little. You got to get out of that wetsuit. You got to find that mount line. You got to get clipped in. You got to practice your mounts. All of those are key parts of it, but it's just not something that you see widely done. There's the flying mount. I can't do it. I don't even leave my shoes clipped in on my bike. I'm a pretty good triathlete. I try to keep things comfortable and safe. But again, it definitely is something Gerald. So, I would encourage you to practice it. It's about honing in the skills, getting the wetsuit off, getting on the bike comfortably, learning how to mount and get up to speed. So, yup. It definitely is something.

Andrew Harley: I tried one time, Matt, in my first year as a triathlete, still learning this sport. I tried one time, kind of with the same line of thinking, like, “Maybe I should work on that.” And I was at my local gym, swimming, and I prepared myself. I took the right amount of gear to swim a couple hundred yards in the pool, hop out, go to the spin class section, spin on a bike for 5, 10 minutes, and back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. It was so logistically challenging -- getting out, drying off, getting my triathlon cycling shoes on without getting water all over the gym locker room. And I was like, okay, this wasn't worth it. It took me so long to get dried off and get to the spin class area that it was like, okay, this didn't really help me do anything. So I only attempted it once. I have seen, at natatoriums, when I used to coach youth and juniors, there are youth and junior triathlon teams that will have their bikes poolside with a non-electric spin turbo trainer. And they will go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. When they're racing, they're racing draft-legal, it is sprint distance, olympic distance. It is fast. It is hard. That transition matters to them quite a bit, because they've got to get out of the water, get on their bike, and stay with the right pack for draft-legal racing. So I think just for an age group triathlete, it's not a lot – like, Matt, like you said, if you have your transition flow down from a fitness standpoint, it's not as essential to have your body used to what this feeling is like. But that said, Matt, like you said, if you want confidence in knowing you know how to do it on race day--

Matt Sommer: Yeah. I will throw one more thing in there, and I will have some athletes do this. Not all the time. Race rehearsal day. We talked about the bike. I will have athletes that, actually, I'll say, “All right, you live by open water. You can stage this by the lake. Go swim a portion of the swim. Let's get you in the water for anywhere from 30 minutes,” -- maybe the full distance, depending on who the athlete is. Because race rehearsal is a dress rehearsal. It's not just about -- it's about fueling. It's about practicing your fueling. And if we have energy expenditure from the swim, and we don't take that into account leading into the bike, which leads into the run, we're doing a disservice, because you are expending energy. What did you do before the swim? How did you fuel coming out of the swim as you got onto the bike? Because if you're already expending 3-, 500 calories swimming, you got to get on top of that, then on the bike, which then multiplies as you get to the run. So really, I've seen people's races, that are vying for a Kona slot, vying for a 70.3 World Championship slot, they didn't take into consideration the fueling from the swim in our fueling plan for bike and then our fueling plan for the run. So there are some practical applications there, where you could throw that in on race rehearsal day.

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